#25 - Nicola's Lived Experience

In this episode, host Leisa Reichelt is joined by School Can't mum Nicola, who shares her family's journey through School Can’t challenges. 

Nicola discusses the challenges her family has faced in finding the best way to support her children in their well being as well as their education. She shares the challenges of shifting her mindset, having come from a background that valued academics. Nicola talks about her grief for the life she imagined she would have and having to give up her career. The conversation also covers the relief that moving to Home Education has brought the family.

Nicola focuses on the importance of maintaining a strong parent-child connection, and reaching out for support to come to terms with becoming a carer.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:28 Meet Nicola

02:07 Early Signs and Struggles

06:31 The Turning Point: Seeking Help

08:09 Embracing Home Education

09:04 Balancing Career and Family

11:38 Navigating Grief and Acceptance

19:09 Insights on Home Education

25:51 Final Thoughts and Resources

Recommended Resources

• How to Keep House While Drowning (book) - https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Keep-House-While-Drowning/dp/1529159415/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
• Home Education Network - https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/
• Home Education Registration around Australia - https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/home-ed-registration-around-australia/
• Carer Gateway - https://www.carergateway.gov.au/

Transcript

Leisa Reichelt: 0:05

Hello and welcome to the School Can't Experience Podcast. I'm Leisa Reichelt, and this podcast is brought to you by the School Can't Australia community. Caring for a young person who's struggling to attend school can be a stressful and isolating experience, but you are not alone. Thousands of parents across Australia and many more around the world face similar challenges and experiences every day. Today we are joined by School Can't mum, Nicola. Nicola's been on a journey with her family, including two young people who have struggled to attend school. In today's episode, Nicola's going to take us on the journey that she and her family have been on, and in particular the learning and the mindset shifts that she's experienced along the way. A quick content warning. This episode does discuss some sensitive topics including the mention of a suicide attempt, so please take care when listening. Here's Nicola's story. Welcome, Nicola. Thank you so much for joining us on our podcast today.

Nicola: 1:00

Lovely to be here.

Leisa Reichelt: 1:02

Well, let's get started by just getting a little bit of context around you and your family, Nicola. What can help us understand a little bit more about you?

Nicola: 1:11

I am mum two, two lovely humans, teenagers now, I was always, a academically brought up, a lot of value was placed the importance of education my kids seemed to be quite bright. And so I thought, yes, they will, they will go on and, and have their choice of whatever their future might hold. know, they, they'll be able to pick their path. then we had COVID and lockdowns and during that time was eldest hit high school. seemed to be really struggling and we weren't quite sure what was going on school seemed to be, big part of it. So we reduced a whole lot of demands, they still continued to struggle. Fast forward another couple of years and then my youngest is due to start high school and, and then they also started struggle to attend. had uh, three or four years one or the other, or both at the same time, attending most part-time, sometimes not at all.

Leisa Reichelt: 2:07

So Nicola, if you use the benefit of hindsight and go back in time and hunt for the earliest signs that things might not go the way that you'd thought. What do you think were the earliest clues?

Nicola: 2:21

Gosh, it's hard to know. the full benefit of hindsight and, you as many of us did getting diagnoses of neurodiversity during and post COVID, think that might have, if I had have known that back then, that might've tipped me off. back then my eldest had undiagnosed celiac So they were just tired all the time and were like, well, you're tired. Maybe you should sleep more or eat better or do something different. Uh, and in primary school they were doing great academically and all the teachers loved them. And at 90% of the, the problems that they were facing, which were few and far between, were all around connections with people. They would form really strong bonds. And then over time as friendships do, in early days, sort of would change and fracture and move my oldest would butt heads with some people or be quite judgmental. And if I, had of known what I know now, that would've been a sign that their neurodiversity was, making it hard for them to be in that kind formal school environment. might've approached things a di differently, but I don't know how, because school is school. can't you change too much of that environment. Um, next set of signs was the even post celiac diagnosis, they were still low energy and really struggling every single day. were pursuing diagnoses and trying looking for things there. were also at to live our lives and do all the things and support all the people. And, and if I had known where we were gonna end up, then would've, would've stopped earlier because You You relationship with my kids was just so difficult. whole journey has really brought back to me that, we want the world for our children and we wanna offer them and push them and encourage them get past you boundaries of what they can see, because we have more lived experience than them we know what our kids are capable of. Our number one job is, is to be there love them. And when you can sense that trusting, loving relationship, just constantly being worn down by the demands of day-to-day life, a sign that something's really wrong. And I think that's really where I would've noticed that, that things were just, we needed to do something else.

Leisa Reichelt: 4:44

So you mentioned that general kind of tiredness that maybe the Celiac disease could have explained, but even with that diagnosis, that didn't go away, every day, all the time, they're just saying, I'm tired. I'm tired, I'm tired.

Nicola: 4:58

Tired. My body hurts. know, they would sort of do things the minimum they could get away with or just try not to do it at all. dealing with early teenagers here. They're known for being a little self-involved and a, you little self-centered, and maybe a little lazy, as a quite old teenager that I am still on the inside, I would love to not do all the jobs that I have to do. And so you misread the signals. You are like, oh, you're telling me you're tired, but that's just an excuse and you should suck it up and clean your room. so yeah, you, know, we go around and making these assumptions because we don't know that life could be any other way. And it's only since coming on this journey that I've discovered School Can't is even a thing

Leisa Reichelt: 5:47

What was that journey like for you? So you go from like,'cause I mean, I have a son who's very much the same, right? He's like always tired all the time. And I very much was the same. I'm just like, we're all tired. Suck it up. Let's get on with it. How did you get to a different mindset on this? What was your path?

Nicola: 6:06

Very slow. We cut back on a whole bunch of extracurricular activities. We had that raft of headache, stomach ache, things that are You signs and symptoms of your central nervous system not working properly, very difficult to validate through you medical expertise when you're looking for a medical explanation of why is my child generally unwell? all came to a head when my eldest ended up, we were having one too many arguments about their phone use. ended up in hospital, after an attempted overdose, which thankfully was you self-reported and we got them help. and It showed that, you had been a significant trust rupture. Like kids that age, don't go these actions lightly. They do it if they think that is no hope. There's nobody in their corner who can support them. From there, you sort ramped up various supports. already engaged a psychologist. Tried looking at some other medical stuff. And so hence the, the neurodiversity diagnosis. then they were still continuing to struggle and, became apparent that we just weren't going to make their normal high school work. then went to online school part-time. was you not too much interaction. Really small class sizes, headphones, better sort protocol'cause when you're online, people don't tend to all talk at once. managed about two to three weeks of that. Then we were like, okay, this this is still not working. Let's just take a big break. We'll take a term off. Explore some other things that might be going on and see whether we can get some supports back on board you want to start year 10. of Of course you this sounds all very neat and orderly, but like a duck on the top of the water underneath mum's feet are swimming like mad.

Leisa Reichelt: 8:09

Yeah.

Nicola: 8:09

Because in time I'd been busy researching home education, which scared the daylights out of me but turned out to be not scary at all because there's a wonderful Home Education Network and they were very reassuring. And I attended some webinars and I thought, actually, no, can do this. It doesn't have to look like formal schooling. This is amazing. I can researching, other people going through this. That That's when I came across School Australia. really liked the framing of everything. It's not school refusal, and using that meant that have good conversations with school, other external support people.

Leisa Reichelt: 8:44

What was going on for you, Nicola? Because I imagine that in addition to doing all of this research work and working with the school and getting your head around the idea of home education, you probably had other stuff going on as well. You are working through all of this or trying to?

Nicola: 9:04

I was a chief of staff, for an Australian email company. We had, 50, 60 employees across the States and India and Australia.

Leisa Reichelt: 9:14

That sounds very demanding.

Nicola: 9:15

I just couldn't manage the stress of the kids at home and the demands of the job simultaneously. and so something had to give.

Leisa Reichelt: 9:23

Can you give us a bit of a sense of what a day in the life was like back in this peak time when you were working full time in this big job and you had all the stuff going on at home as well. What was that like?

Nicola: 9:36

There was a lot of guilt. It was post pandemic, so we were supposed to be in the office, not full time, but semi-regularly. I didn't feel like I had the energy to do that or the, social capacity. There were times where I got on the train and got halfway in and then got off the train and went back home again because it seemed too much to fit it in. I was still juggling my work stuff, but I was taking these breaks all the time because I had to, you know, ferry a child to an appointment or go and check on them and make sure they were okay or get on the phone to research things or make appointments or talk to the school Half of my brain at all times was sitting there going, what are we gonna do next? So I think I've researched every school in Victoria where I live, looked at so many different external supports, to see which one might work for my child, researching home education. Where could I find a support group that my kid might go to, to form new friends. Talking to friends and family who would give me well-meaning, but unhelpful tips. There was housework and making dinner. My husband was working at the same time too. And, and so there was a lot of juggle. And then a lot of, you know, I had plenty of mental health things, so I had appointments to go to, And just, not enough sleep. My whole body was like physically vibrating from time to time just'cause of the degree of stress. And I thought, this is, this has got to change. So I actually resigned from my job. I couldn't do that job part-time. so I thought, I need a, a total break and let's, let's try and get the family back on track. And now, three years later or whatever it is, I'm working one day a week. and that's, I think, the most that I can manage. And that's having come to terms and be at peace with my eldest not doing any kind of formal schooling.

Leisa Reichelt: 11:31

How has that been for you, giving up that career and leaning into this new lifestyle?

Nicola: 11:38

It has been years of grief It's not one big lump of grief, it's about 60 lumps of grief. The first one is, why is this even happening? My kids are really unhappy and I'm really unhappy, and this is not the life that I wanted for me and them, and so something has to change. The life that I thought we would have is not what we're gonna have. Then I would fasten on the next plan of whatever it might be, whether that was, you know, we are gonna try a different therapist, or we're gonna try a different school, changing the hours or we're gonna try not having to wear school uniform. and every time. was like, yeah, okay, this is hopefully gonna work. And then it didn't, then I have to go back to the drawing board and try again. it went from, maybe we're doing VCE Unscored. Well maybe we are doing VCE Unscored part-time. Maybe gonna do VET, maybe we're gonna do this, that and the other. Maybe we're gonna do it online. What if we don't do any high school at all? Each one of these things, it got to the point where every time it happened, there'd be another bout of grief and loss and like, where I thought we were going versus where we ended up. Became an expert on the 9,000 different ways that you can get into tertiary. In my day there was just the big front door that 90% of the people who wanted to do tertiary would go through. there was maybe a little side door for mature age and some sort of special consideration people. And now there's, you know, 15 different doors. And yes, you know, the main doors are still the main doors, but there maybe 50% of people go through that now'cause there's so many other pathways. And so was quite reassuring then when I finally said, right, we're gonna withdraw and enroll in homeschooling. Plenty of anxiety still. I thought, my husband and my family would kick up a lot of fuss over, how could you, what does that look like? Gosh, you must be spending all of your day teaching your child algebra. I'm like, no, we're not doing that. That is, you know, that would, that would end us the worst place possible. You know, the best thing that I can do is be there emotionally for my child so that they always know that home is safe. Trying to teach them algebra will, you know, that's a terrible plan. I can't be their mother and their teacher, given that school is so uncomfortable for them.

Leisa Reichelt: 13:59

And that relationship is so important.

Nicola: 14:02

It is. So, yeah, it's been grief, grief, grief, grief, grief. And then suddenly when I stopped pushing so hard, I went, all right, well, we're gonna go homeschooling. And just kind of go with whatever my kid has capacity for. It was this amazing sense of relief. And suddenly home life got less stressful. I had more brain back to do things for myself, but also for the household. And it was around then that my youngest was like, well, maybe I could reengage with school. I had to line up a bunch of supports for them too. But just, all around that time, everything just started to come together. I, I cannot tell you how great that was after years of so much stress. I mean, there's still a lot of emotion tied up in that, do I think that, I could have done more. I mean, uh, we're a parent, we always feel like we've failed our children in some way.

Leisa Reichelt: 15:03

How do you feel about you and where your life has turned out now?

Nicola: 15:07

I still carry that grief for the life that I thought I was gonna have and the one that I've ended up with now. I accessed Carer Gateway, other things going in my life that also added to my carer load. I was like, I would like carer counseling because I think a lot of the stuff that I've got going on relates to that role as a carer. I wanted someone with particular expertise in what is it like being a support system, particularly for your child. and it, you know, impacts on your life and, you end up with all these complicated emotions that you feel guilty about. Like, why am I frustrated with having to support my kid this way? Or I know why I am frustrated, but what do I do with this emotion? can I turn it into something that's productive instead? My frustration with the situation is actually, you know, unpacked. I'm like, well, this is what enables me to keep going and keep advocating for my kid and keep looking for supports that might work because the story is not yet finished. That frustration with where we are now is actually helping me keep us going towards something that might be better, rather than just throwing up our hands and saying, well, this is what we've got now and we are stuck here.

Leisa Reichelt: 16:20

You mentioned, when you were talking at home education that you, you might have gotten a little bit of, of challenge potentially from friends and family and maybe husband. how, how much have you and your partner been on the same page through this journey? Has that been a challenging thing?

Nicola: 16:38

We are two people who've been married for quite a while. You spend enough time with any one person and you end up having some differences of opinion. He was less involved with the kids' day-to-day experiences, and he was not going to all of these appointments and talking to psychologists and the school. I was carrying all of that in my head and he would only see the behavior that was visible at home. He was sort of following along two months behind where my thinking was. We had the occasional chat where I said I understand that you are frustrated and I have not been passing on as much of this information to you as maybe I should have, but here's where we are now and we can't do that thing that you want us to do because these are the reasons why, So, I would have to catch him up.

Leisa Reichelt: 17:27

it's a job in and of itself, isn't it? educating other people who have questions about why things are going the way that they're going and you spend so much time intensely trying to understand all of these things people might think you're just sitting around playing on Facebook, they don't understand all the work that you're doing, it's kind of invisible work a lot of the time, and then you have to bring everybody else on the journey. It's a pain really, isn't it? It's like just one more thing.

Nicola: 17:52

You do, you're running around and looking for information, for understanding, for something that helps it all make sense. I've learned a lot now about the central nervous system, the psychology of humans, young and old, about a whole bunch of physical things due to the situation with one kid and then me and then the other kid, and all the rest of it. So, you know, I'm an amateur I don't know, biologist, human biology, psychology, central nervous system

Leisa Reichelt: 18:20

Hmm.

Nicola: 18:21

we've got so many people now involved in the care team, and I'm the person who has to pull it all together because these conditions are comorbid. I'd sit there and say, well, we tried doing this, but we couldn't because of this symptom, which is tied to this, but we're actually seeing you are over here. it's all related because X, Y, and Z. People are like, all you seem to do all day is sit on the computer and hang around. I'm like, that's because I am researching, looking up scientific papers that explain why these things are all related, and how they impact my child on a day-to-day basis. And therefore, what supports we could use or access or try, but, when I found good resources, then I would save them and share them with people to say, look, it's not just me, it's not my kid being obnoxious.

Leisa Reichelt: 19:07

Amazing. I would love to hear a little bit about your experience of home education. You said that you started off being scared of it and then you envisaged that it was like you walking around the dining table lecturing on algebra. you've come to a different understanding of it. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you and your child are doing home education, what your approach is and how that's working.

Nicola: 19:34

Helpfully the Home Education Network had a lot of resources to showcase different kinds of plans that you put forward to the government to say, I promise I have thought about these eight areas that you believe are important to young humans development and academically and so, I was looking at those and going, you can apply for exemptions in certain subjects. My child is unwell. We definitely cannot cover all of this thing. What are their interests? Well, they're currently interested in sewing and anime. I said, right, we're gonna get grandma involved and we're gonna do a sewing project, and that'll cover us for maths and it'll cover us for arts and crafts. And well, they're seeing all these medical specialists, so that's covering us for science and human development. You mean home education can just be doing stuff that my child is interested in and then tying it back to these subjects. Can it really be that simple? Plus, applying for exemptions, for whatever reason works for you. I'd send it off to the Home Education Network people and they said, yes, this looks great. And I sent it off to the government and they wrote back and said, yes, this looks great. Have we done a lot of the things that I had in the plan? No, because we keep uncovering new diagnoses and so the capacity that we've got to tackle these things has been reduced. And that's okay too. Like how much of a relief is that, that the government says, we know that plans change and you're not gonna get in trouble if you don't do the things that you put in your plan. If you get audited, we'd just like to know that you have not just stared at YouTube all day.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:13

Lots to learn on YouTube.

Nicola: 21:15

but like maybe 16 hours a day of YouTube is a few too many.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:20

Sometimes I think we do 16 hours of YouTube in this house, so I'm not one to judge. You kind of started off right at the beginning of this talking about how, you came into this whole experience as somebody from quite an academic background who really valued academics and all that kind of thing. and now obviously the approach that you're taking with your eldest is very much not aligned with what you had experienced and maybe what you expected, how have you gotten your head around that to a point where you can feel satisfied?

Nicola: 21:56

That's a question and a half.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:59

Sorry,

Nicola: 22:01

we spoke about those stages of grief because the future is uncertain and, Despite the fact that knowing, you know, whether you wanna go into tertiary or get a job or whatever it is, you don't have to have that tick at the end of your high school journey in order to do any of those things. In some respects it leaves, it leaves everything so wide open. But my kid is still so unwell, I'm like, I don't, I don't know what the future holds for them and, and that, that still leaves me with anxiety. I don't know what they, what they're gonna be capable of doing. I do know that when they decide what it is, if we can help them get there, they'll be amazing at it. But at the moment, that just seems so far away. for my youngest, I've realized through all of this, I'm like, do you know what? The marks don't matter. That has been a big relief and it makes me, feel sad for the young anxious me who put in so much effort to try and do the best I could possibly do. it didn't matter whether I got a 92 or a 52, I passed the subject. I'm running around telling my nieces and nephews and everybody else who, who will listen. I'm like, do you know what? Trying to get to the end of year 12. The school has to put a lot of emphasis on it.'cause a lot of their funding is tied to it. They really want you to get the best results that you can. And you know, your parents are on your case to try and get you to study and do all the things that you need to do. But it's like being pregnant and everybody's focused on the birth, but, what they can't educate you with when you're pregnant is what is the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years like as a parent, less

Leisa Reichelt: 23:46

Yeah.

Nicola: 23:47

few weeks, and I feel that, finishing off high school is a bit the same. Everybody's focused on getting to that final number or whatever it is that might look like for the end of your schooling, but nobody looks at that. whatever your next step is, nobody looks at it again.

Leisa Reichelt: 24:03

Yeah, you're so right. I think the other thing that I really learned from talking to the home education network folk as well is that it doesn't all have to be done by the time you're 18. We have this false deadline that you have to have all of this done by the time you're 18. And then it's like, game over. Can't do that anymore. And it's like, you can take as long as you need to get through this stage and work out what's next,

Nicola: 24:23

you

Leisa Reichelt: 24:23

there's no rush.

Nicola: 24:25

until you finish your high schooling at age 38. If you, if that's where you're at and you're like, I regret not having finished my thing. Well, you can go back at 38 and finish We've got huge amounts of flexibility You know, we've got so many options now, But for me to suddenly go, do you know what, I don't care about the marks. Which has been a interesting journey for me psychologically to sit there, you know, as someone to whom, strong academics was such a core piece growing up. having another viewpoint, has taken a lot of time and a lot of reading, and a lot of just sitting with what it that I want for my child? and I would much

Leisa Reichelt: 25:04

Yeah.

Nicola: 25:05

have, someone who is curious and interested in the world and, knows that they can come and chat to me about anything. I'd much rather have that child than the one who is miserable, grumpy, angry. We can't communicate'cause every time we're communicating, we are fighting My role as a parent is to ensure their safety long term and to create the, you know, person who can function as independently as they can. And I, I can only do that if they know that I will always be there for them and that I always love them and, and they're, worthwhile as a human and I'm always gonna be there for them. now that they're a bit older, we're gonna talk about what matters to them and how I can help them get there,

Leisa Reichelt: 25:49

lovely. Nicola, I might move us onto our last couple of questions, if that's okay. So if you could go back in time and tell earlier Nicola something, when would you go back to him? What do you think you'd tell yourself?

Nicola: 26:05

I mean, I'd almost go back to when I was pregnant and panicking about would we be good enough parents? And I'd say, it'll be okay. the most important thing you can do as a parent is to have that strong connection When you are working together and got that trust with one another, you can make it through the obstacles. Life is not smooth and easy. it's okay and life's definitely not gonna look like the way you thought it will. If you focus on that trust bond, then it'll be okay.

Leisa Reichelt: 26:37

That's your priority. Focus on the trust bond. If you could tell everybody who's listening, who's going through their own School Can't experience right now, one thing, what would you want everybody to know?

Nicola: 26:51

I mean, again, it's gotta be that whole thing where you are connecting with your kid. In so many support groups on Facebook and elsewhere, I see so many people in the School Can't experience searching for a way that will help them get their kid to school. How do I get them to school? How do I, tell the school what I need? How do I school? And it's really school focused I would love for there to be a shift in the conversation to how do I support my child so that it's not about the school, it's about my child. I think would make all of us feel a lot less stressed. Unfortunately, our whole culture is centered on the fact that, when you're a certain age, you must be at school. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves. There are so many options now and school doesn't have to look the way we are taught that it has to look so, focus on your kid'cause any other process is madness. Like you, you'll go mad.

Leisa Reichelt: 27:49

And then finally, if there was one resource that stands out that you think people would. benefit from knowing about, what would you recommend?

Nicola: 27:59

Interestingly, it's a book that's nominally about housework called How to Keep House While Drowning. a very dear friend sent it to me. And it does not come with, you know, you've had to organize your laundry basket to make that easy. It is about, teaching you that chores are morally neutral and so you're not a bad person if you don't have your house looking a certain way. It doesn't make you good or bad person. if a job is worth doing, you can half do it. and suddenly that made sense to me because, you know, whether it was, I don't have time or the energy to do a full load of dishes, so I'm gonna scrub the fry pan and. two saucepans because that's what we use and the rest will have to wait. But that also worked for me for the school journey too, to say, well, I'd love for my kid to be back at school full time, if all we can manage right now is one period. It's okay to say, well, if one period's what we can manage, then one period is what we'll try to do.

Leisa Reichelt: 29:03

Yes. Taking the burden of judgment of ourselves is a huge thing, isn't it?

Nicola: 29:07

and giving yourselves so much compassion because we're trying to juggle it all. And we think of ourselves as failing if we are not able to juggle it all, and sometimes life just, that's too much in one bucket.

Leisa Reichelt: 29:22

Nicola, thank you so much for sharing your journey. I'm really pleased that you are able to get through those difficult times and transition into a place where things are working for your kids and your family And better for you as well

Nicola: 29:36

I'm sure it'll continue to be lumpy and bumpy in the future. This has definitely taught me that life is never going to plan.

Leisa Reichelt: 29:43

Yeah. That is very true. Okay, well thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

Nicola: 29:47

Great to chat with you.

Leisa Reichelt: 29:48

Many thanks again to Nicola for sharing her story, and I hope there was something in there that resonated with you. I've put a link to How to Keep House While Drowning the book that Nicola recommended in the episode notes. And I've also put links to School Can't Australia, where you can access many more School Can't resources, including information about the parent support group. If you found this podcast helpful, please do take a moment to subscribe, give us a rating or a review. These things really help us get this podcast in front of more people who have School Can't kids, and who haven't found our community and the information that we share. If you've been inspired by Nicola and would love to share your own lived experience with the community, please do drop me an email to schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com. It is such a relaxed process. Anyone could do it, and I would love to hear from you. If you are a parent or carer in Australia and feeling distressed, please remember you can always call the Parent Helpline in your state. A link with the number to call is in the episode notes. Thank you again for listening. We'll talk again soon. Take care.