The School Can't Experience

#60 - Why School Can't Kids Struggle with Self Care & Hygiene & What Actually Helps, with Laura Hellfeld

• School Can't Australia • Season 2 • Episode 60

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Consulting nurse Laura Hellfeld joins host Leisa Reichelt to explore one of the least-talked-about challenges facing School Can't families - hygiene and self-care.

When young people are in burnout, the capacity for everyday self-care tasks like showering, brushing teeth and eating can quietly disappear, often leaving parents feeling confused, worried, and like they're somehow failing.

Laura explains why this happens, drawing on nervous system science, interoception, sensory processing and the body's response to trauma and chronic stress. She offers a compassionate, practical framework for understanding what's really going on and how to respond.

This episode covers why declining self-care is a signal worth paying attention to (not a behaviour problem to push through), why centering the person rather than the task makes all the difference, and how joy, self-expression and identity can be unexpected but powerful pathways back to body connection and care.

Laura also shares her perspective on burnout as a medical condition, the unrecognised physical health needs that often sit underneath it, and why protecting your relationship with your young person is the most important thing you can do right now.

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Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Hello, and welcome to the School Can't Experience podcast. I'm Leisa Reichelt, and this podcast is brought to you by the School Can't Australia community. Caring for a young person who's experiencing School Can't can be a lonely and isolating experience, and today's guest helps parents and carers deal with some of the least talked about and most invisible challenges that can come along with school-related distress and burnout, and that's hygiene and self-care. Many parents are taken by surprise when a young person's capacity for self-care declines, but Laura Hellfeld, a consulting nurse, has worked with many families who have faced these challenges, and she is going to share some thoughts with us today on how we can understand what's going on, how we can respond if our young person loses capacity for self-care, and Laura also shares some wonderful resources that we can look into for support. This is a topic that can often feel too difficult to discuss, but I hope you enjoy our conversation Laura Hellfeld, thank you so much for joining us for our School Can't Experience podcast. So fantastic to have you with us. Thank you so much, and thanks for inviting me. It's a pleasure. You are joining us from somewhere in the UK.

Laura Hellfeld

Yes. I am up in North Yorkshire, so I'm kind of halfway between London and Edinburgh, It's a really beautiful green space, Like your beautiful green room. Yes, like my green room.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yeah. You don't have a very British accent, though.

Laura Hellfeld

No, I don't. I don't really fool anybody, do I? But, I'm from Southern California.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Hellfeld

Been here about 13 years in North Yorkshire. and I would say, well, all of my parenting experience as well from here. yeah, quite love the green. It was hard to leave.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

yeah. It certainly is a beautiful part of the world. Tell us a little bit about your journey, Laura, that brings you to do the work that you are doing today.

Laura Hellfeld

So I think it's been a long road for me that started off as a younger person, and getting to kind of that year six, the junior high age, and realizing my peers sure seem to kind of know how to do this. all the things of what music was cool, what to be wearing, what to wash your face with. And I needed to study everybody else to figure that out. And then at the same time I had, trouble with some other areas of self-care and so I thought, "Well, you know what? I'm gonna go into healthcare. I'm gonna study it and figure myself out along the way, and maybe help some other people too." And I learned a lot. But in reality I think that actually learning how to care for myself came more recently, with having become a parent, having learned more of who my kids are and their neurodivergent selves, and recognizing that in myself, and now I've gone through assessments as well, and realized it was really among neurokin, to go, "Ah, there's different ways to approach all of self-care." It seems so revolutionary, really. And a lot of self-care crosses over with health, so it's quite where I like to sit really to help people. And then selfishly, I learn so much for myself and from my kids. So any time I'm with the community, I always think, "Oh, that's such a great tip. Oh, that's such a good idea." "I'm so glad we're having this conversation."

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

That's so great. So what did you actually study?

Laura Hellfeld

Undergrad was biology, and then I went on to grad school for nursing, public health nursing and clinical nurse leadership.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Wow, that's pretty intense. And so were you working as a nurse in the health system for a while? Yes,

Laura Hellfeld

I did.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yes,

Laura Hellfeld

I did back in the States. I wanted to start off in emergency and what we call intensive care, just because it felt really hard and that felt kind of like a cool challenge. And knowing I was younger and I probably had more energy to do it then, and who knows what will happen with life. But I've always had my foot in the door because my education was both to be bedside hands-on, but also public health, which is the idea of how do you create programs for communities of people? How do you understand what education people need? And I would say, actually, that's really heavily what I do now. I don't do, bedside anymore. I'm much more out and about in the community and figuring out what could be done to help people better.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yeah. Well, let's talk about that. What do you do now?

Laura Hellfeld

When people ask me that, I'm like, "I don't know." It's different every day. Which I think kind of suits me because I bore really easily. So I kind of just called it a nurse consultant. So I work for myself, which really helps being able to be flexible with my kids and their needs and the ebbs and flows that we all go through. And, I would say it's mainly around w- what nurses and other healthcare workers call like the activities of daily living or, like, self-care. So I do a lot of work on food and eating, toileting, hygiene, sleep. I'm a sleep consultant. And then, a lot around, like, puberty and distress, I think, are some of my main areas. And it's really looking at, of what have we learned from our communities? Like how do we adapt those to really help us in that day-to-day, hoping to get closer and closer to what is, like, personalized care, and, like, what is wellness in our community, and also for that person.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

I have so many questions that I'd like to ask you. I hardly know where to start. I know within our community of people who are helping to support School Can't kids, so kids who are struggling to attend school- Yeah it's like 85% plus neurodivergent probably. Yeah. And when the- when kids are experiencing school distress, a lot of life capacity just kinda disappears, right? Things get- Yeah really, really hard to do. And I think that some of the things that you work with are things that we don't talk about a lot because it can be really shameful f- for the kids- Yeah the parents as well, who feel like they're failing. I know you've done lots of work with home e- education kids and unschooling and all of that sort of thing. I wonder if you can give some reflections on your observations of that kind of cohort of kids- and what you see as being typical struggles that kids and families are dealing with.

Laura Hellfeld

Absolutely. I think there's a bit of a pattern. Of course, everyone's different, but like you touched on, it's like when we... there's a tenet from science that I bring to everything of, like, everything is limited. You know, so my energy, my capacity, my ability to... You know, my physical ability or my emotional ability to manage any task, you know, is limited. and that cohort of young people have typically expended all of it, for often it can be very long periods of time or even sometimes some short and intense time periods too, but their nervous systems really need to recover. I tend to see this, scale of, if we want kids to be able to add on hygiene, self-care, we have to take away these other demands and help with recovery. So it tends to be that we see these young people, they're less likely able to care for themselves, and I think that's across the board for all the self-care areas. So whenever there's a parent or carer starts to talk about, "You know, they seem to be not taking on as many snacks," or it seems like the amount of time they're sleeping seems to get smaller and smaller. or I notice their hygiene's... You know, these skills that they used to be able to access are going away. That to me is often that, like, flag that the young person is waving of, "I'm not okay." Mm. and often I think it happens, people, forget to bring down so many things that we have been trying to say socially about adults of when people aren't well. You know, they're often trying to show it in a way to other people. But with kids, we tend to just tell them like, "Get on with it. Keep pushing through." you know, we add to their plate. We're like, "Well, then now they're gonna have detentions. Now they're gonna have extra homework that follows them through. Now they have to do all..." like, and therapy can be great, so it's always that balance. but might be lots and lots of therapy hours when in actuality that person just needed more rest. One of the things that I tend to put up on a slide to show people, or I'll write it out if I'm with someone, is that we're gonna be more able to accept demands that have to do with us, like our bodies, ourselves, our internal demands, like needing the toilet, accepting that I actually feel tired and can go to bed, or that my skin feels a bit itchy and maybe I need to get a washcloth on it. I'm gonna be able to do more of that if the external gets quieter. It gets so framed in behavioral, but it's, again, what we see happen with adults. There's just too much on their plate, and for too long they've been trying to meet expectations with everybody else 'cause they're trying not to get excluded. They're trying not to get in trouble. So again, all that attention goes to there, and they let themselves go. The same way as... And you might be listening to this and going, "Ooh, I'm doing that," where you go, "I'm gonna finish my emails before I go off to the loo." Like, you're constantly trying to meet these other social expectations, whether as small as they are sometimes or big ones, because we're so trained to be so mindful of what others think of us, so we expend. And this is so true of our young people. They too expend so much energy with that. And this cohort, I think, is in particular with that. When they then have some space and are able to recover, these are skills that slowly can come back.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Laura, if you have a child who has lost capacity for self-care, what do you need to worry about and when?

Laura Hellfeld

Oh, such a good question. I get asked it and I always go, "I feel like I should have a better answer for this." But then I have to remember, if I don't have a good answer for it, it might mean because, again, it goes into, like, how complicated that could be to try to figure out. And I'm so sorry I don't have this, like, magic number or magic line to give someone, because it's so personal done to every single person. But I would say particularly if you see one area of self-care moving quite drastically or if it's multiple areas of self-care all starting to drop at the same time. Like, it's that idea of trying to be really proactive. and I think it's such a life skill to be teaching them of, like, "This week was a lot." So we're gonna pull back a little. Just make sure you have that time, you have the mental ability to just kind of follow your own thoughts and recognize some of your own internal signals to have that snack, to realize you need to sit down and rest and maybe watch your TV show. So unfortunately I can't give a great answer other than trying to kind of keep categories in your mind of the hygiene, sleep, eating, toileting, and just have an awareness of where we're at with those in general, which can be hard with older kids because you don't necessarily notice if they have that snack or not, or whether or not they took themselves to the toilet or not. So we just have to be a bit more observant, and then take steps to normalizing having those conversations, which I think can be a lovely way of teaching them that, like, it's totally normal into adulthood to be checking on your friends or maybe a partner of, you know, "Hey, did you f- you know, remember to have your meal today?" I think that's much more of our neurodivergent, adult culture that we have fallen more into when we find more of each other, to remember to, ping each other questions like that. And, again, so building that life skill with them. Mm.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Laura, I think there are plenty of parents in the community who have got kids of all ages from primary school right up through high school, and those kids hit burnout, and they stop being able to do anything to get their own food. They stop being able to shower or bathe regularly. They stop being able to brush their teeth ever. Sleep is a issue, and, you know, as a parent, it can be a pretty confronting thing to have a kid who used to do a lot of those things and then who suddenly doesn't.

Laura Hellfeld

Yeah. I think that's a really important word, that word you used, actually. I don't know if I've ever used it in this context, but to be confronted by that is actually quite a good word, because I do think it takes you by surprise. And it can be really upsetting, for the whole family to realize that someone's not well. I personally think we need to somehow get burnout more into medical diagnosis. I'm slowly tinkering away, trying to figure out a way to get it into research, at least through maybe even the food way, 'cause that's an area that I do more work in, that I think it has to be included under, like, particularly like ARFID and burnout, to hopefully get it to where other people understand it is I consider it like a medical condition. And that would hopefully kind of reframe it to everyone of it's like a flare like any other medical condition, or it could come on at any time, meaning the age. 'Cause sometimes people think it's so silly that young people. And they're like, "How, what do they have to worry about?" And you're like, "Let me tell you. Let me give you the huge list that young people are managing." 'Cause I actually think it's way more than what I'd had to go through as a kid, and I found that difficult. But I think it... if we think of it like a medical condition, we understand that people need time and space. They need to be able to recover, and that it's not anyone's fault, the young person or any of the parents or carers. It would be just like, again, any other medical condition, that this is just unfortunately something that happened, and I would love that if we structured our systems accordingly.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yeah.

Laura Hellfeld

Right?

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Because I think a lot of the time parents use it as a way to sort of cast judgment on themselves, right? "What kind of a parent am I if I can't get my kid to brush their teeth twice a week, let alone twice a day? You know, I must not be doing a very good job of parenting if I've got a 13-year-old who is not doing that, or is not showering, or, is always a bit stinky, or wears the same clothes for days after day." It's very easy to make that about you as a parent.

Laura Hellfeld

Yes. I think that brings up a couple ideas, hearing that and how heavy it is. Because I think we also have come to where we are in our interactions with our young people around hygiene or any of the areas, really, of self-care, with so much of our own experiences and worries. Like, I know I had troubles, so then the idea of my kid, I'm like, "No, no, no, but I don't want people to pick that out." "I don't want my kid to get bullied for that," or, "I don't want this to be so hard," you know? So you bring some of your own worries and anxieties, and I think that's really a natural response, and there is so much judgment that comes around. I think some of the great ways of dealing with that is probably, like, how most people would've found this podcast, though, is finding those in the similar situation, so you can reduce how many of those judging comments you see or hear, and be around that supportive space. Find a trusted friend or multiple trusted friends that you can message at. Maybe they're... I think I have a benefit now of, because I know a good amount of people in the States and now also Australia, someone's always up, you know? Even, like, do a quick message of, like, "This feels a bit hard today," just to get a bit of reassurance for it 'cause it is- hard and recovery can be slow like other medical conditions that flare. Mm-hmm.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

I feel like I want to ask you some really basic questions, Please do. It's all so complicated. Also, you know, the questions that are hard to ask, I think, of people outside of those who have had the experience, right?

Laura Hellfeld

That's true. That's actually really true. I think we forget how much we discuss topics that the general population doesn't.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Right. and the first, I think the first time you talk about them as well is a pretty scary thing, right? So- Yeah if you've got a kid who hasn't brushed their teeth for three weeks, how unusual is that? How worried should we be? What should we be doing if that's something that we're dealing with, do you think?

Laura Hellfeld

Oh, I want to say so many things all at once. For any of the hygiene tasks, whether that's washing hair or using wipes or wiping themselves on a toilet or the teeth brushing, I think in burnout it's quite common to struggle with any of those or all of them for any range of time because it's so much input. Hygiene is so... There's so much sensory involved with it, and then it's also about your body. And in particular, young people who have faced some trauma, whether that's from school or otherwise, it's similar to a- adults that we know that when we face a trauma, connecting into our body doesn't feel safe. But in order to do hygiene, we have to connect into our body. So it immediately makes this massive barrier. And one of the questions, if I'm in a workshop around hygiene, is like, "Why do we do hygiene?" Like, what is the point of any of this stuff? And usually we come down to, and you mentioned this, or alluded to it, is the idea around, like, health. But also to be comfortable. But again, if somebody is not as tuned in, and we already struggle with interoception anyway, so understanding what is it that I need in this moment to be more comfortable, care for myself, interoception becomes exceptionally difficult in those times. So we might be seeing someone going, "Gosh, but they, surely their mouth is bothering them. Surely their hair is bothering them." But actually they might not feel that. Yeah. So the motivation is to care for them. And so that's, that's what we mean by

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

interoception, right? Is that lack of connection to what's happening with our body.

Laura Hellfeld

Yes. There's that layer and also the layer of I have to tune back into myself. I also might end up tuning into feelings that are very overwhelming- 'cause this is somebody who's very likely faced- bullying in the situation, whether from adults or peers, or, heavy amounts of shame. And those are really awful to feel. So there's often a time where the young person needs to, like, shut off and then kind of dissociate from their body. So we see that pattern quite often too. So again, I think a big piece of why then almost, like, all hygiene can become something that's just really inaccessible. And then people ask, "Well, when should we worry about health?" 'Cause, yeah, like, all of it could lead into something that we wanna be aware of. And again, like, there isn't a magic number. Like, I don't really know. It depends on other things going on for their health. But I do think there's so much to be said about the number one thing in all of hygiene is recentering the person and not the task. So whether that's for a long-term thought of, like, how are we gonna get this back in, or even if there's someone who, okay, well, actually, they are toileting most of the time, but I'm still gonna be focusing on the day-to-day, like, this person. How can I make them the most comfortable with this task? So for someone who is finding hygiene really inaccessible, it's still the person and still their nervous system. We really can't move on before that. I have a handful of blogs up on my Substack, and one of them is the, like, how do I get them to shower? we could talk about that for ages 'cause it's super, super complicated, shower. And it is exhausting for so many people. But it was a question asked in a care center where they had disabled teens and, young adults. And I had let them know ahead of time, like, "If you're looking for someone to make you a checklist for all these different people that live here, like, I am not your person." And I was quite clear on that. But yet, I think people get so used to asking for those things and being given those lists. And especially, the care of disabled and neurodivergent people tends to be very reductive, where it's like, "Oh, it's always gonna be this reason why they find it difficult. Oh, just make this small list. Oh, we don't really need to include their input or their ideas in it." Particularly when we have non-speaking or minimally speaking people. I think it was just the idea of, if we're accidentally not centering the person, it becomes all about this task, or in this case, discussing the shower. But it becomes something then that we're pulling someone through. We're kind of, like, dragging them through, just go, "Oh, good. Oh, phew, did it. Tick." Mm-hmm. When in reality, we just created, unfortunately, like, a negative experience that they're gonna carry with them the next time. So it's always the right choice to slow down and meet them where they're at, and consider their nervous system safety, and build from there.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

So what does it mean to center the person? How do I know I'm doing that?

Laura Hellfeld

I think getting down to the question of why am I wanting them to do this thing, and really having to sit with that. Is it because I know a grandparent's visiting that's very judgy? Is it because of my own h- like, past experience? Or is it really because there's a health concern here, and I'm gonna help try to meet this need to care for them? And another way Sorry, I don't know, you didn't ask this, but it just came to mind, so I'm gonna say it. I think it has to do with my last thought. But it has to do with the idea of, like, how do we ever get back to some of these hygiene tasks. A lovely way can also be the idea of reintroducing them to that idea of comfort in ways that aren't really hygiene, but it's still body care. So even things like, let's say they're on the couch and watching their favorite show, and it's just those little things of, "Oh, know what might help your arm feel more comfortable? What if I put a pillow underneath here?" "Ooh." And just kind of reconnecting in really safe, gentle ways back to, like, what did that feel like? Mm. "Oh, that was kind of nice to take care of my arm. Oh, yeah, I am more comfortable. Thank you." And reintroducing that idea that you can help care for them as well. So I believe that, too, is no one is too old to receive care, even if it was care tasks that they had done independently before. It's okay to need help now.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Oh, that's lovely. I'm, I'm, I'm stuck a little bit on something that you said earlier, which was around- you know, What, what's your reason for doing this? And I think, I think that for plenty of people, the reason that they think it needs to get done is because they've been told by external society all the time.

Laura Hellfeld

Yeah.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

brush your teeth, floss your teeth, shower up daily, do all of these things, like that, that is what is a healthy thing to do. And so to be able to make For, the average person to be able to make a judgment and go, is it healthy or is it a health issue to not shower for a week or more at a time?" I don't know, Laura. It doesn't sound super healthy to me, but I don't know. All I know is kind of what I've been taught is, like, the normal thing to do. It's tricky I think, for somebody who's untrained to make- It's huge to make- There's a lot you know, is it a health decision or not involved in that. Like with teeth brushing, I kind of feel like it, you know, feels like a health issue to me. Yeah. But it's also one of the hardest things to get kids to do sometimes.

Laura Hellfeld

And then if you come down to that thought of, "Well, I wonder if this would help with that," then it's thinking of all the accommodations. Then it's going into, how do I support the person to do this? You're still centering the person and not the task. You're not saying, "How do I get them to brush their teeth?" It's how do I support them for oral care? And that also means it could look like so many different things. So for all of hygiene and tasks too, you could go, "Well, this is how maybe we used to do it before, or how I thought it needed to be done." But actually, almost all hygiene tasks are mixes of tasks together. So then you can start pulling them apart and going, "Okay, well, what could we access now? How can I make that possible?" And figuring that out and thinking, like, very piecemeal as well. And oral care is particularly challenging as well because, whether or not someone's in burnout, very often those who find it difficult to take care of their teeth and mouths are also people who find the different areas of food and eating are really challenging. They're very highly linked. Mm-hmm. Which makes sense. So there's also points of view of when you're coming in trying to think of, "Okay, is this for health reasons? I'm gonna center the person, not the task. I really need to look at the whole picture," 'cause some parts of their body are used for other tasks too. So depending on how we present those tasks also come back to then, then in hygiene. So if we're thinking of how do we present food and ensuring that food opportunities feel really low-stress, they're able to explore the sensory sensations, that really supports what's gonna happen when they're expected to put something in their mouth. We're caring for their, you know, caring for their teeth and gums and tongue. So it's kind of this idea of, again, remembering, like, where would these interactions be happening otherwise as well, and providing support at those times too all add up.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Okay. I feel like what I want you to tell me is- Go for it is that it's okay that kids are not performing a lot of these hygiene tasks that their neurotypical, not burnt out peers are doing- Agreed with, with ease. Yes.

Laura Hellfeld

I appreciate you saying it that way. So yes, I will be the healthcare worker that says, "I am prioritizing. I want this person to still be here." I mean, when we really get to it and how serious this can be, I want this person to still be here. So that means I really need them to feel safe and comfortable. I need them to feel safe and comfortable with the adults that support them. So that means we're gonna do everything slower. We're gonna be really respectful of how they are in the moment and the recovery. And if that means some of these hygiene tasks are put off because it's not accessible, I don't want to make their stress worse. I don't want them to feel like they can't have the relationship they need. Their, their nervous systems need to be regulating and recovering with ours. So we need them to want us and be around us so we can help them with th- this recovery. And I think it's really important, um, I harp on this a lot in the workshops too with families of this is the community of people who very heavily intersect with medical conditions. You know, and that gets so forgotten. And all the meetings, I've never once been involved where there's not an unassessed medical need. And again, part of that has to do with the system here where when I relate things back to who I consider like colleagues in the States, they'll say, "What do you mean? Why wouldn't they just get their X-ray this week for constipation? I'm like, "How nice for you." We don't do that here. So assessments don't happen, or they happen a lot later. And years later where this young person now is managing a lot more of a complex body because they haven't had the interventions or supports to figure it out, why is this so hard? And then I think that comes out with burnout quite often. It was my talk last year at the Autistic Burnout Conference was this idea of really needing to believe young people because that fatigue, that pain is often that medical need waving a little bit. And then, you know, sometimes they get pushed over the edge, and that can flare or have caused the burnout itself. So it's really important, and that plays every day, whether burnt out or not, into self-care, into all the hygiene tasks, 'cause every hygiene task, again, requires immense amount of energy. And I'll relate to parents of think of the stuff you have to do for like, you know, if you're expecting them to brush their teeth or brush their hair or whatever, they have to use their hand constantly and their fingers, like taking off caps, putting caps back on- Mm squeezing things really well. you know, using my hand like this. And we're expecting it in blocks, like these- Mm long amounts of time of all this physicality for some people who are very heavily, have connected tissue differences, so like the hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos heavily, very heavily dyspraxic. You know, the crossover meaning that heavily. So you're like, this person's putting so much thought into going, "I know what I need to do, but how do I actually do the thing?" Mm. So again, and in hygiene, like all of those tasks are mini tasks. So, they're going to be more challenging for our young people even when they feel well-rested. Mm. Even when they feel well in themselves, their baseline, all the hygiene tasks are gonna already be a little bit harder than their peers.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yeah, and then you layer burnout on top of that, and it becomes pretty impossible. Yeah. And then I think the thing that I reflect on, and have reflected on for a while, is that, you know, our job as parent is really to focus on that relationship.

Laura Hellfeld

Yes, absolutely.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

if you're fighting with your kid twice a day about toothbrushing, and fighting with your kid every day about bathing, and fighting with your kid about eating vegetables, like it's just all you do is- is damage, like you're damaging that relationship, which is- Absolutely. Yeah.

Laura Hellfeld

And while that seems like maybe a, I'll say sometimes it's like I know sometimes the things we say, some of the neurodivergent educators, if you're just kind of learning, it sounds more airy-fairy of like, "Only care about the relationship," or this or that But actually, there's a huge amount of science behind why that's being said. Because like you were saying, if you're fighting every day, well, our brains are wired to predict and always try to find patterns. Mm. So if you and your young person are just like pushing through and fighting, the very next opportunity or when it seems like you're gonna be suggesting those same tasks, they're already going to go into alarm state. So it really defeats what we're trying to do in that moment. We're hoping to help with teaching them parts of maybe the task, but those parts of the brain just aren't on. We're expecting them to take on doing some of the task independently. Again, that executive functioning, trying to figure out what, "How do I start? What are all the steps? What are all the things I need to put together?" Those parts of the brain just aren't on then. So it's really vital, again, to slow down and focus on that relationship, like you were saying. Gives them the best shot.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Yeah. And I think maybe also what you were saying then makes me think again about the extra amount of support that they might need to do some of these tasks as well.

Laura Hellfeld

And it can really surprise, I think, families when maybe you had some, again, like older, some older kids who had maybe taken on some tasks independently. And not everyone can take on tasks independently, and that's okay. but I think that really ends up being quite a contrast to them of not really confused of how come they can't, how come they can't do this right now. And again, just reminding them those parts of the brain are not being prioritized right now. They're a bit more in survival mode. They're just trying to get through, and the best way to come back is knowing they're safe with you.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Laura, let's talk about, puberty, adolescence, and the journey through there as well. 'Cause that then adds like an extra layer on top, doesn't it? Yeah.

Laura Hellfeld

Definitely does. Talk,

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

talk us through what it's like for our neurodivergent kids going through that experience. And again, obviously everyone's experience is different, but...

Laura Hellfeld

I think puberty presents a particularly challenging time for all young people. but it's, as everyone knows, it's when hormones really start to raise and fluctuate. Those changes in hormones also impact chronic conditions. So it is another time of when we see either the first time that someone is presenting with a medical condition. So when they say like, oh, if a provider says, "Oh, they were fine. They've always been fine," this is, you know, again, why we need to believe people. those flares of medical conditions greatly impact their day-to-day. And then there just is this, like you were saying earlier in the chat, from outside spaces, this massive amount of pressure of, "Well, now you're this old now." Like, all these expectations just based off of your age and maybe how your body has changed of what you're supposed to do about it. Like hair removal is such a cultural thing. And like so much pressure about it. And if you don't, the repercussions for it seem so hard and big. And then there's some of the demands like with menstruation where similar to when we're thinking about, like, for health needs, it becomes this immediate need to- I have to deal with this." 'Cause also the time of puberty is, where I am particularly with a secondary school, it's this really heavy change with school as well, like massive change in school. So it's like all of that is all at one time. It seems so unfair- to everyone. So it's not uncommon to see kids kind of responding in a variety of different ways to puberty, whether it is linked to burnout, or if we have some young people who really wanna push back against the expectations, you know, and being considered those, like, rebels or whatever, and wanting to express themselves, in ways that go against the messages they're receiving of what they're supposed to do. There's a really lovely, autistic researcher named Katie Munday who had a term they put out some years ago called autistic shielding, But the idea of- It was during puberty they realized there was all this pressure to conform, to wear certain clothes and wear very gendered and not necessarily what they felt comfortable in. And so they made a point of, "No, I will wear these things and I will do these things," and called it their shield around their identity. and I always thought that is so brilliant. Such a really, really fascinating way of thinking about it. And of course, I think it can happen at any age, but I think around this time is that real conundrum of we are, as society, putting so many pressures on the young kids to say, "Look, you need to do this thing. You need to take control of your body. You need to take care of all the self-care. This is on you." And then at the same time we're going, "Oh, no, not like that." You know, like, all these rules of, our schools. "Oh, you know, here's your list of haircuts, that you can have. Here's the socks you can wear." My kids don't wear tights, but the WhatsApp groups with what tights are allowed seems obscene that that's what you're worrying about when you're trying to get kids just ready in the morning and want them to feel loved and cared for before getting them out of the house. You know, like, no nail varnish. It's just all to look so similar. Mm. And I think that's a, a pathway to, for kids to really disconnect from who they are. I think hygiene also is this extension of our identities, and, like, and connecting to our bodies. So therefore, if you tell me how I have to do everything, I'm gonna go, "Forget it. I'm not connected to it." But if you got to wear your hair in the way you wanted or you got to have the glitter on that you wanted, the temporary tattoos that you wanted, you're more likely to give attention and care to that area. It just makes sense then to me.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Let's talk more about that, because I think that's- a really interesting reframing of this. Like, we often come into this thinking about kids and hygiene and neurodivergence and burnout and, you know, and it's just like, "Ugh, all these problems that I need to solve." But your thoughts about, like, actually embracing it as self-expression in a really positive way I think are super interesting. Talk a little bit more about that and how that works and, you know, maybe some examples of where you've seen that be really effective.

Laura Hellfeld

Oh, yeah. It's been with a number of kids in burnout, and it's so funny 'cause I've often thought, "How lovely." it was something that just wasn't on my mind as a teen that I should be doing. And so it feels almost, It's like my heart feels, like, extra full seeing them getting to explore that area. But I've seen where sometimes that step into the space of whatever their interests are, you know, and we're never too old for any of our interests. But that can include just what's on their shirt, 'cause our clothes are a part of our care. And rethinking of, you know, maybe this is someone who can put some clips in their hair with the different colors or braids or this or that, and it looks like a character. We're really also into... I would say a lot of our communities are really into fandoms, right? Mm-hmm. So it's that idea of like, you know, what sci-fi or like we're rewatching The Mandalorian right now, 'cause why wouldn't you? you know, it's wonderful. We had this conversation last night actually, 'cause there was a scene, in one of like the restaurants or something where everyone looked so different, you know, different- colors, different hair, different clothes, different body parts. And my kids all went, "How fun would it be to get to walk into somewhere and see everyone like that?" And I was like, "You know, I think if we weren't all worried about what other people thought or we really tuned into how I wanted to dress or how I wanted my nails to look, the world would look more colorful," not quite as much as Star Wars, but the world would look a little bit more exciting and fun. So I think just bringing that into their space. So whether, they want to really start to design something that relates back to one of their favorite characters. Sometimes that can start, again, can be a bit hard on their own body at first, but there's been a number of people where maybe it's with their iPads. There's different apps you can get where you design clothing and design hair. And then it makes it more natural to discuss, "Would you want me to do that to you? Would you want that hair?" Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? It kind of, instead of it being like, "I know she wants to do my hair 'cause she wants it to be..." And actually tried to get away from like the clean/unclean. I realized for one of my kids that was really triggering, and I was like, "Yeah, actually, I could just find some new language around it. Is this comfortable for you? You know, how can I make this hair more comfortable for you?" So we could be bringing it in in that way and just kind of celebrating. Their interests also tend to be like... They tend to be part of our identity. You know, like we feel so in love with it and so passionate, that can bring so much joy. And we know through, now there's been some more research and lots of educators that talk about one of the ways to start to move, when they're ready, out of burnout is really bringing in their interests, in ways that they're able to access and because that's how we find joy. We need joy back.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

When you were talking about this, I was thinking, I had, I had a, a hard job for a while. And, in the period when that job was really hard, I got really into getting my nails done, really bright colored nails, and it just felt like multiple tiny dopamine hits all through the day. seeing, these rainbow... They would be, like, bright pink or all different colors or whatever. I don't have them anymore because I don't have the need for that, like, constant little micro dopamine hits anymore. But at the time, like, it actually really felt like it was sort of- Yeah supporting my mental wellbeing. And so I- Mm. Yeah, I think that's really interesting, is to think about, like, what are those things that you could offer to the young person that-

Laura Hellfeld

Yeah

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

that is not, like, hygiene for, for healthcare necessarily. It's more like hygiene for, like, delight or self-expression- Yeah or fun or- Yeah you know. And yeah, so I, I'd not thought about it that way, and I think that's a really interesting way, isn't it? Maybe to even make you feel that little bit of connection back into your body that's- Yes a positive connection.

Laura Hellfeld

Oh, I love that. I love your example of that too, 'cause it's something that I hadn't really thought of. Then I went, "But I can think..." I usually have color in my hair, and I've been letting it, rest 'cause it was, like, falling off. but there's just a different feeling of, like, it's so fun to see it. And you think- Mm. I think we know that instinctively, but we forget. Mm-hmm. You know, again, w- when we go to transfer the ideas to kids, 'cause we hadn't heard those before. or it wasn't, you know, it's not as valued in how the kids are supposed to be presenting to the

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Well, I think, I think also we're in... We often just feel as though we're just trapped in problem-solving land.

Laura Hellfeld

Yeah.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Where my job is to try to help get my kid out of burnout and to, help with their healthcare, and to hopefully get them clean and, their teeth not rotting out of their head. Like, that kind of... They feel like real problems that I need to solve. And so we are stepped out of that enjoyment and delight space- as well, right? 'Cause we're just like, "Well, that's not a serious problem to solve. I've got serious problems to solve." But actually, maybe we would do a little bit better building that connection, and also just, giving everyone something fun and enjoyable. Yeah, I don't know. It's just turning this on its head,

Laura Hellfeld

and I think there's a lot to be said with that. I've done some writing on that too, of, like, things... Everything can become so serious- And they often have had a period of great seriousness right beforehand and lots of meetings, and seeing phone calls or emails that maybe they didn't hear all of it, but they know it's just been serious, serious, serious. And you go, "Well, they deserve some joy being brought in and lightness being brought in." 'Cause how are we gonna... I remember having that thought with my oldest and going, "I cannot exist like this anymore." You know? Just everything felt so heavy, and I was like, "I'm not gonna, get through this, really." You just couldn't see the end of the day- in a way. And then going, "Well, forget it." Like, I have to just kind of come at it from a whole different point of view and still be addressing, but through that point of view of it's gonna be fun first, it's gonna be silly first. Yeah. It's gonna be totally ridiculous. One of my kids and I, you know, have such potty mouths. so that works well. and bringing it that way, 'cause when people are regulated and having fun, like, that's such great connection. So actually, it kind of dawned on me, I can't see what the needs are because everything is so serious. But if we can relax into each other and be around each other, I can actually figure out... 'cause trying to communicate what you need as, even an adult, is very difficult. And particularly for younger people, and particularly my older one didn't have that, as much communication, or we were figuring out his communication at the time. And I was like, "I need to be able to, like, watch. You know, I need to be able to observe what's going on." But I really can't do that if we're just in constant heavy crisis. so it's that idea of I am taking all this very seriously, and because of that, I'm gonna choose, like, to bring joy into the serious situation so I can observe, so I can start problem-solving.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

And also just so that we can, last the distance as well, right? Yes. No good if we're all burned out.

Laura Hellfeld

I know. Yeah.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

I'm just having pictures in my head of, like, all of these burned out teenagers, you know, stuck in their bedrooms but, like, covered in temporary tattoos like a bunch of bikies or something. Yeah. But yeah, sounds kind of fun. Laura, for people who are having questions around their kids and hygiene and neurodivergence and burnout, all these kinds of things, what do you recommend to them in terms of resources, helpful things that they could go and, and investigate further?

Laura Hellfeld

Right. I have pulled some books, that I think are great. I should plug- The Burnout conference that's coming up June. that's through my friend Viv Dawes, and it's our second annual one. So that's coming up. I think for parents, I wanna say is it £14 for the two days? And you get the recording, so you don't have to attend, 'cause it's the whole thing of, like, we understand. But it is live where we all manage the chat, and it was exceptionally active last year, which was great. So that's the Autistic Burnout Conference. Viv Dawes has organized us, so if you go on to Eventbrite, I think you can find it there. I will pop a link in the notes for people if they wanna take Another book that actually I find sometimes, even though this is my area of work or it's, like, a personal interest, I really do like the How to Keep House While Drowning by KC Davis. Oh, I love it. So it's- That was beautiful it's a lot around the house. So if you're familiar. And actually really did change how I approach a handful of tasks. Hygiene is mentioned in here, and I would say it's just some of the philosophy. Even though it might be discussing the kitchen, you can also bring into your self-care, your young person's self-care. I can't say enough about this book. I adore this book. I have two kids that will not menstruate, but I have made sure I leave it out regularly. It's so smartly made where-

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Laura, for our,

Laura Hellfeld

for our folks who are just listening,

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

can you

Laura Hellfeld

tell us about the book? Oh. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm showing books. I'm like, no sense. No, you're good. So This is The Autism-Friendly Guide to Periods by Robyn Steward. It says autism-friendly, but honest- I mean, obviously it'd be for anyone 'cause it's just broken down into such easy steps. Really great visuals. They also built it to where, things are in these boxes that you could cover with paper. So if you feel like, "I'm only gonna look at this," or, "This is too much information for me," so it's meant for you to kinda dip in and dip out. The book I wish I had you know, when I was younger. Yeah. I also think this book is really lovely, The Growing Up book. It's by Rachel Greener and then illustrated by Claire Owen. They also have one about different families. Like a very inclusive family book, which is just lovely. So this one I leave out for the kiddos as well. it's more like images and show, oh, this, and this one's about hygiene. So just, like, gentle ways of introducing. Needs start to come up And what does that mean? And what's going on with my body? This book is the Every Body Book of Consent. Not really hygiene, but it's about body care. And, it's a social worker that made it, Rachel Simon. It is a little bit more word-heavy. Like, I don't expect mine to sit with it. Mm-hmm. However, I do bring it out. I'll just show a page. So it's a little bit word-heavy on some pages. Mm-hmm. But it's a good one to share together. Yeah. Or if something has come up and they have a question, it's a good go-to one where I can say, "Well, I'm gonna look at it with you. What do we think that means?" So it's a good sharing one. I would say those are kind of my go-to ones right now I quite like.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Laura, just to wrap us up, if we have parents who are listening who have got kids who are, you know, a bit stinky, been a while since they've seen a toothbrush, living on white food, not getting the best sleep, and parents who are kind of, like, on the other side of the bedroom door just, like, going, "What to do?" What would be your words to them just to help set them on the right path?

Laura Hellfeld

That they're doing a good job, you know, supporting their kid and being there. I think the being present, and as we've been mentioning, the relationship is really the number one thing for recovery. I guess, to find ways to bring in compassion and rest for yourself during this time. 'Cause again, self-care can seem so, similar to what we were discussing around the humor and ridiculous or these other fun ways of bringing hygiene in, or just, you know, back to their body. It can feel funny to step out and say, "Well, I'm gonna do something that makes me feel lovely when my kid's having a hard time." 'Cause you think, "No, I should feel that heaviness of... I'm gonna share that with them." But actually, we can share that with them if we do these mini moments even of caring for ourselves. And caring for yourself really is so valid. And again, it'll only lead actually back to your young person's recovery. So please do know that you're valuable and that we care about you as well during all of this.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. I really appreciate it.

Laura Hellfeld

Thank you for chatting with me.

Leisa Reichelt (Host)

So a huge thanks again to Laura for sharing her wisdom and experience with us today. I hope you got some insight into what's going on for many of our School Can't families at home. And if this is your experience, I hope there was something you found helpful and reassuring. I have put links to find out more about Laura, as well as the resources that she's mentioned in the show notes so you can investigate further. If you know someone who might find this podcast helpful, please take a moment to share it with them. And I would be so grateful if you were able to subscribe to our podcast or leave us a review in your podcast app. This makes a massive difference in getting the podcast in front of more people who need it, and it also makes my day. We would love to hear from you, so if you have feedback or suggestions, or you'd like to volunteer yourself or somebody else for an episode, you can use the fan mail link in the show notes, or drop me an email to schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com. If you are a parent or carer in Australia and you are feeling distressed, please remember you can always call the parent helpline in your state or call Lifeline on 13 11 14. Please do not hesitate to reach out for extra support. Thank you again for listening. We will talk again soon. Take care